Question about ILS/Missed Approaches/Alt Airports
I flew YYZ-LGA on AC720 on Friday April 11, 2008. Flight was delayed coming out of YYZ, we used E90 instead of scheduled A320 so I assume it was because of weather delays..
Anyhow, flying into LGA we had to hold for about 20 mins then went into approach to LGA. We were coming into land when all of a sudden, a big roar, full power applied and very very steep climb. Was quite exciting... looked at the guy beside me and said "thats a missed approach", he didnt look too excited. In fact people around the plane didnt look so "well"...
At this point I really missed united's channel 9 to know why we did a missed approach. (previously i flew into denver and we had a missed approach because of microbursts, but not as thrilling of a climb as this one).
The captian came on to say that he did not see the approach lights and could not see the runway lights and that they were looking at plan B. Anyway plan B was to try again and if not sucessful they would go to the alternate which was YUL....
After a long story, we were able to land in LGA on our second attempt...which followed a large applause from the cabin. But I was hoping I could be enlightened through a few questions.
1. What would our decision height have been given we were in a E90 and landing in LGA. How low were we when the captian initiated a missed approach. What cat ILS would we have been using?
2. Why is our alternate YUL? I would assume it wouldnt be JFK or EWR because of the same weather patterns right?? Wouldnt it be easier to go to IAD or something, at least stay in the United States?
3. I think i had one more, but cant remember it now..
Thanks everyone :-)
I would think that on military aircraft, ground warnings come on more or less within spitting distance of the ground.
P.S. Sounds like an exciting end to a flight! Glad you guys all walked away from it.
Airport equipment/certification
Airplane equipment/certification
Pilot certification
The 2 runways at YYZ that have Cat III approaches are 05 and 06L
The published minima are
Rwy 05
Cat II 635' ASL/100' AGL and 1200' RVR
Cat IIIa 600' RVR
Cat IIIb/c not authorized
Runway 06L
Cat II 664' ASL/100' AGL and 1200' RVR
Cat IIIa 600' RVR
Cat IIIb/c not authorized
That being said some/most operators have varying limits based on the crew/airplane qualifications. The normal Cat I limits are 200' ceiling and 2400' RVR but I've worked flights that have told me their Cat I limits are anywhere from 1200' to 3600'
That's interesting info. I'm surprised that YYZ does not have 0/0 certified equipment. But I'm sure they conduct autolands all the time?
Autolands in 00/00 are a whole different kettle of fish.
Taupo.. landing minima is based on company requirements and standards, Government Approvals, Airport facilities, Aircraft certification, ect.. anyone one thing not in approval would stop the crew from conducting the approach.
I routinely fly into places that I am limited by that airports/countries regulations, not that of my company, flag country.
I don't know if AC E175's are Cat 2, but again one would think as a minima they would have it.
The missed approach is actually a safety event - all the necessary guarantees are not in place so the best option is to "go around" and try again! Certainly nothing to be concerned about. Happens at YYZ several times a day!
A standard CAT 1 ILS is 200' above the ground. If there were no obstacles and the crew held (which they do) basic IFR ratings (Instrument Flight Rules), They can descend to 200' or as published on the chart.
There is Cat 2 ILS which allows descent to 100' above ground based on aircraft equipment and crew / operator training.
Then there is Cat 3 and Cat 3 A/B which allows 50' and 00 (autoland).
Again these require both approved aircraft, approved Runways, training, and operator approval from the regulatory authority.
On my current aircraft we can Autoland on 00', but that takes lots of extra sim training and mostly, airports with the right systems in place.
I have NO idea what AC's Embraers are rated to, but I imagine it's Cat 2 atleast.
Airport equipment/certification
Airplane equipment/certification
Pilot certification
The 2 runways at YYZ that have Cat III approaches are 05 and 06L
The published minima are
Rwy 05
Cat II 635' ASL/100' AGL and 1200' RVR
Cat IIIa 600' RVR
Cat IIIb/c not authorized
Runway 06L
Cat II 664' ASL/100' AGL and 1200' RVR
Cat IIIa 600' RVR
Cat IIIb/c not authorized
That being said some/most operators have varying limits based on the crew/airplane qualifications. The normal Cat I limits are 200' ceiling and 2400' RVR but I've worked flights that have told me their Cat I limits are anywhere from 1200' to 3600'
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