Gigantic Progress Measured In Inches
"It is almost 18 months since American Airlines began ripping coach seats out of every plane in its fleet to add as much as five inches of legroom for every coach passenger it flies. And fly American I have-24 coach segments in the last four months-to decide whether a few more inches of seat pitch translates into any significant improvement in our lives on the road.
Twenty-four flights later, I can say this: If you fly coach, you've got to be nuts not to be flying with American. This is gigantic progress measured in inches.
Except for the prosaic name--American calls the program "More Room Throughout Coach"--there is absolutely nothing to criticize and nothing to nit pick. There are no complicated calculations to work through or judgments to shade. This is as simple a proposition as you're gonna get in the otherwise grim landscape of 21st Century business travel: Fly American in coach and you'll get substantially more seat room than you'll get in any other U.S. carrier's coach cabin.
That's all there is to it. Fly American anywhere in coach and get three or four or five inches more to move around. Three or four or five more inches to cross your legs. Three or four or five more inches to open your laptop or spread out your paperwork. Three or four or five more inches to restore some semblance of comfort and personal space--and, yes, even dignity--to flying in the back of the bus.
Remember comfort in coach? Remember personal space? My god, remember dignity? That's what American is serving up now. Three or four or five more inches of space and a dollop of dignity.
If you've flown American since they've reconfigured--the entire domestic fleet is done and most international aircraft have been overhauled--then you know what I mean. If you haven't, it's hard to explain exactly what you're missing. It's not just the extra room. It's what the additional space contributes to the entire atmosphere of an average coach flight on American.
With more room to spread out, passengers are comfortable..."
http://misc.biztravel.com/CPageUtil_.dll?Content&path=Nv/branc/branc.htm&affiliation=BT3&ssnid=
However, my experience has been that UA regular economy pitch is just as good as AA with MRTC.
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767300ER, how could you conclude that AA MRTC is better than UA E+? E+ is *five* more inches, more than double the increase of MRTC. Even without a ruler, the difference between E+ and MRTC is obvious.
Let's see if some simple math would help us figure it out without a ruler, shall we? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
This is United's description of E+ (http://www.united.com/site/primary/0,10017,1134,00.html):
"Economy Plus is an exclusive area of six to 11 rows (depending on fleet type) in the forward portion of the United EconomySM cabin with up to 5 inches more legroom."
"Economy Plus will feel roomier, with a seat pitch of 35 to 36 inches."
That would give us an estimate of 31-32 inch seat pitch for regular economy seating at United.
Looking at the relevant information on the AA web site (being dynamic, AA's web site doesn't allow links, but if someone is interested in particular configurations, go to AA.com (http://www.aa.com), click on "Programs and Services" - "Airport & Fleet Information" - "Fleet Information"), their regular economy seating after MRTC provides for 33-36 inches seat pitch (depending on the aircraft type, with higher numbers referring to exit rows, etc.)
I think it's pretty clear that after MRTC, AA economy seating, with at least 2 extra inches over regular UA economy (not even mentioning pitiful DL economy seating), provides more space. Being 6' tall, I have grown to appreciate these extra 2 inches. It's amazing how much difference they make!
Granted, UA E+ is a superior product to AA's MRTC economy. But as JJeffrey posted above, contrary to UA, AA made it available for all coach passengers throughout the entire plane. There are clearly 2 different marketing approaches here (exhibited by UA and AA), each having its own merits. Time will tell which one would prove to be wiser from economics point of view.
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[This message has been edited by Eugene (edited 07-13-2001).]
But a serious question:
what is the progress on installing MRTC on international flights? I'm doing JFK-LHR-JFK next month (AB6 JFK-LHR; 777 LHR-JFK) with the family, and would consider using miles for upgrade if I know it's "LRTC".
Any way of figuring it out?
Speaking of figures, Mr. Brancatelli himself stated: 31 divided by 0.94 is 32.98. That's two inches more space, not 3 to 5 more.
Er, no. Compare the seat maps before/after reconfiguration. The standard Super80, for instance, used to have rows 7 to 33 in coach, and now has 7 to 31---25 rows instead of 27, or about 3 inches more apiece once you remember that the 2 exit rows (now numbered 20 and 21) do not need more room either-- 23 non-exit rows versus 25 before, or an 8% reduction in non-exit-row coach capacity on Super80's.
Originally posted by JS:
767300ER, how could you conclude that AA MRTC is better than UA E+?
easy-- UA's E+ is not so great on some aircraft. I took a UA 737 in E+ and was in the last row of E+ and it was hardly impressive. maybe 2 or 3 inches, but nowhere near 5!
The 6% reduction in capacity is overall, not just for coach. You have to take away first and business class seating in order to do the math the way you did it. A 10% reduction in Coach capacity is 3", and let's not kid ourselves that the upper boundary of 5" is one row on one type of plane somewhere that had to get an extra 5" because of location of galleys, exits, bulkheads, etc. My completely uninformed guess is that 95% of the seats only got the 3 extra inches.
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[This message has been edited by hillrider (edited 07-14-2001).]
The difference in comfort, the difference in what I can do easily or not, is more important to me than percentages or inches. While I certainly enjoy the unbelievable legroom of seats like 26ABHJ in an Airbus, I think AA struck the right balance between providing an acceptable level of comfort and maintaining enough seating capacity to earn money.
Being 6ft tall it made a bid difference for me, perhaps that 737-800 have more generous legrooms tha other AA aircrafts and I will monitor this on my next AA flights.
767300ER, your suggestion of advertising 30% more space is even worse. Do you or Mr. Brancatelli actually fly AA?
And while we're on the subject, a few piddly inches is easily 30% more space measured between the front of my seat cushion and the back of the seat in front of me. Since none of the extra inches went to lengthening seat cushions, all of the "benefit" of MRTC accrues not to the 31-32" pitch, but to the 10-11" space where your legs formerly hit the crunch zone.
So, I would say 767300ER is right about dead on!
...not to mention the three FEET of space when I'm lucky enough to snag 17H/J http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
(All measurements approximate because when you're only 5'6" everything looks larger.)
For the amount of money AA has spent on the advertising, and considering how much airlines normally advertise (i.e., very little), the money blown on the ads could have been plowed into removing an additional two rows per aircraft. Then MRTC would be something to write home to Mother about. Right now, it's not.
767300ER, your suggestion of advertising 30% more space is even worse. Do you or Mr. Brancatelli actually fly AA?
Speaking of figures, Mr. Brancatelli himself stated: And when you consider it eliminated about 6 percent of its seat capacity to achieve the roomier configuration, American is now flying about 10 percent fewer passengers on every plane it operates.
31 divided by 0.94 is 32.98. That's two inches more space, not 3 to 5 more.
Obviously, two more inches is better than none, and for a tall person such as myself, it makes the difference between a crappy flight and a nice flight, all else being equal.
However, my experience has been that UA regular economy pitch is just as good as AA with MRTC. In fact, one time I flew AA and UA on the same day, and I honestly could not tell the difference between the two airlines' seat pitch (AA seats with the adjustable headrests is another story, which is basically why I no longer fly AA!)
767300ER, how could you conclude that AA MRTC is better than UA E+? E+ is *five* more inches, more than double the increase of MRTC. Even without a ruler, the difference between E+ and MRTC is obvious.
(edited to add that CO and DL seat pitch is what AA was before MRTC, which is very tight seating! On CO & DL, the person in front of me physically cannot recline; on AA MRTC or UA E-, he/she can recline)
[This message has been edited by JS (edited 07-13-2001).]
It looked even better to me that the Ecoplus section on UA. This made such a difference to me that after my return I applied for Platinum status using their Canadian offer to comp AC Aeroplan members.
I did not realized until I tried the seats how it improved my overall comfort during the flight.
Perhaps their marketing campaign was not clear enough (like 30% more space in front of you) to make people realize how important was this feature.
The main aadvantage of MRTC over E+ is that it's available for all coach passengers throughout the entire plane. Not just elites in the front, but for every Joe, Sam, and Sally.
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Does anything beat the exit row on a A300?
I suppose the Executive F100's could count.
OK, So which _coach_ seat has the most leg room?
10 A/F on a 757? (probably about 5 feet).
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